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Free Games Forum: General: Debating Forum:
Do artists deserve to be paid for their music?

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Pheylan
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Jul 5, 2008, 6:00 PM

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Do artists deserve to be paid for their music?	Can't Post

The biggest argument against downloading music for free right now is that its stealing the dolla dolla bills from the people who make it. Regardless of how much the hacks at the record companies make, the artist still loses something, no matter how minuscule. This raises a good, and often overlooked question: Do they even deserve to be paid for their art?

Lots of people do lots of amazing things, and they never get any sort of monetary compensation for it whatsoever. What makes a music artist any more deserving than any of the other people? Music won't suddenly disappear because its no longer a way of making money, it may change in some ways, but we will by no means lose it.

"Fuck man, this is Britain. I don't care how many people you've murdered, you don't jump to the front of a queue. It's just not the done thing."
--Mr. Flunchy

coolgreencat
Senior Member

Jul 5, 2008, 6:38 PM

Post #2 of 25 (249 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

No, because I hate Nightshiver.

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Dr. Funk
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Jul 5, 2008, 7:04 PM

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There are the prolific artists who have been rightly dubbed the title "artists" - they perceive music not primarily as a source of income or fame, but as an expression for passion and emotion. Pink Floyd, The Beatles, The Steve Miller Band - they weren't in it for the money, they were in it because they love music and they're some of the best-well known bands in history.

I think what Frank Zappa said about the decline of the music industry summarized it best - the aforementioned artists all come from eras where they could make the music they were passionate about and get it heard by the masses simply because people were willing to try new things. Back in the great days of rock, passion was the leading factor and money was but a bonus of success, but the constant increase of popularity was its downfall.

And that leads us to... oh, mid 80s to early 90s. The music industry is growing, and instead of hiring the guys that don't know genres of music any better than they know how to prove the theory of relativity, the hot shots who know how to play the younger generations start being put into executive positions and perpetuating the same crap over and over again simply to appeal to the masses and not give the new guys a chance because it might hurt sales. Freely distributing music works great for the indie bands but the chances of making the big time without signing a fat contract and walking the line are slim to none by this point.

Then there was the 90s up until the turn of the century. Lars Ulrich, Napster, blah blah blah, who cares.

And then, there's now. Turn on the radio, and you'll here 8 different remixes of Low by... Flo Rida featuring T-Pain featuring Soulja Boy featuring Lil Whoeverthefuck. It's mentally violating and a painful display of the complete and utter decline of the current state of music. The obvious display of greed is growing exponentially every day, as some figure in pop culture doing something relatively dull with the sole intention of it being a PR stunt, yet it somehow makes teeny boppers all over the United States stop cold in their tracks and screaming "OH MY GOOOOOOOD" at the top of their lungs. Maybe this generation having this twisted sense of what defines "good music" is caused directly from growing up in the environment I explained in paragraph 3.

How does this relate to being paid, though? Well, consider Radiohead - they were releasing their music for free for a while and the profit they made was arguable at best, and even if they hadn't intended to start selling on iTunes once the standard release of In Rainbows was out, they probably would have been forced to start selling just to avoid turning no profit and being forced into bankrupcy. And now fucking Metallica is at it again, and they want to try the same thing with the newest crap that falls out of Lars' asshole. There was a time and a place where a passion for music was all there was. There was no "underground" music, seperate from the industry - there was music, made by musicians, because they loved their art and wanted to share it with everyone else. Non-profit music was commonplace. Artists promoting other artists was commonplace, because they respected each others' music and wanted all music to be heard by everybody. Nowadays, there simply isn't means of being heard that way - it's a dog-eat-dog (or dawg Et dawg lol no wut im sayn word up) industry where nobody's going to do shit to promote anyone but themselves. The last rapper I had an ounce of respect for was Tupac.

So, in summary, DO the artists deserve to be paid for their music? The ones who've already come to pass in another generation do, because they had attitudes towards music that deserved payment in its own rite. Do artists now? No! Screw them. They hardly ever do anything good with their money, with the exception of Rage Against the Machine. I don't care if y'alls got gold-plated grizzythizzy grills for yo and yah homies, nigga - how about you take that money and feed an entire village in Africa instead. Y'know, get back to your roots you stupid apes. There are two kinds of black people in this country: African Americans, and niggers. Tupac was an African American. T-Pain is a nigger. That's an argument for another thread, though.

There are, of course, exceptions to both of those, as there are exceptions to anything else. It just happens that these exceptions are far harder to come across.

I think the only modern musician I've been in a long time who's really had any idea what the hell he was talking about was Trent Reznor.

also i would strongly advice everyone to watch the pick of destiny about tenacious d

[12:35] Taz: tazg knows how to say arkansas, lol

(This post was edited by Dr. Funk on Jul 5, 2008, 7:06 PM)

Sneep
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Jul 5, 2008, 11:20 PM

Post #4 of 25 (243 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

You could say that a florist deserves no money because you can pick flowers in the wild anyway, but that doesn't justify robbing a florist does it?

If an artist wants to give away their music for free, that's great.

If an artist wants money for their music, then we must decide if we want to pay for it, and if we don't we should simply live without it, not steal it.

If you hate a song so much, why buy it?

If you love a song, the least you could do is show the artist some appreciation by paying a small amount of money to download the song/buy the CD.

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

Jindrak
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Jul 6, 2008, 12:58 AM

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Re: [Sneep] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In general if I liked a previous artist's music I will download the CD, then if I like it I will buy the CD, if not I will not listen to the music ever again. i.e. Tantric came out with a new CD, I downloaded it, I liked it, I now own it. Disturbed came out with a new CD, I downloaded it, I don't like it, and it is now just a pile of poo. This has much less to do with my own moral compass and much more to do with my car's CD player not playing burned CDs, but hey, I can still tell myself I'm a good person.
edit: and if anyone knows of good record stores I'm trying to track down the rest of RHCP's CDs. I've got a good number of them but they're sneaky little bastards.

"In the words of every extreme sports fanatic, it looks fun, you go first."
-Penn Gillette

(This post was edited by Jindrak on Jul 6, 2008, 1:03 AM)

kidd3
Newbie

Jul 6, 2008, 2:25 AM

Post #6 of 25 (232 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Artists don't really make any money from their CD's, they even admit this.

A lot of artists nowadays are giving their stuff online for free to get popular, which gives them money.

And anyway, a lot of people would stop buying music and it wouldn't help anyone at all.

I don't have 20$ for every 15 songs I want.

luffy 747
Veteran

Jul 6, 2008, 2:34 AM

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Re: [Pheylan] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

i think they should but more through their touring and performances. these give you a much greater experience and much more of the money goes to the artist (including merch sales etc.) unfortunately the record labels are taking more of the touring money now too. but if you really want to make money go to college and get a "real job" music is a risky business and there is no guarantee that you will always be liked. soulja boy will be out of fashion in a few years and he will be bagging groceries somewhere.

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Pheylan
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Jul 6, 2008, 3:31 AM

Post #8 of 25 (230 views)
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Re: [Sneep] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

God. It's not stealing. Stealing is taking something and depriving its previous owner of it. Downloading music is copying it, while the original owners all still retain their copies. Its called copyright infringement, and the only reason people think its wrong is because of the small amount of money you may or may not be depriving the artist of. A concept so nebulous that its retarded.

And this isn't even the point of the debate.

"Fuck man, this is Britain. I don't care how many people you've murdered, you don't jump to the front of a queue. It's just not the done thing."
--Mr. Flunchy

(This post was edited by Pheylan on Jul 6, 2008, 3:32 AM)

neocloud101
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Jul 6, 2008, 5:15 AM

Post #9 of 25 (217 views)
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I download as everyone else does, but still, we wouldn't even be able to listen to the music at all if it weren't for the artists. Yeah, they should still be paid, but the albums are so expensive that some people just can't afford them.

So basically, I do believe they should be paid for things they created, but I'm a savage hypocrite and I still download.

JAVA AND LARVAE 4 SUPERMODS 2008

Let's take down these Armed Humorless: (Guess Who).

Sneep
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Jul 6, 2008, 5:53 AM

Post #10 of 25 (213 views)
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In Reply To

It's like having a builder fix your house and not paying him, then.

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

TazG
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Jul 6, 2008, 6:58 AM

Post #11 of 25 (208 views)
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It's like having a builder fix your house and not paying him, then.

Because every time you download a song, the artist has to come to your house and perform it for you.

edit:

Quote

Stealing is taking something and depriving its previous owner of it.

If you don't pay a builder, you stealing his time and effort. Copying files deprives nobody of anything except part of someone's bandwidth which they are offering you freely.

does whatever a spidertazg does

(This post was edited by TazG on Jul 6, 2008, 7:02 AM)

Sneep
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Jul 6, 2008, 7:15 AM

Post #12 of 25 (203 views)
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Re: [TazG] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Alright fine, there is no metaphor for it.

By freeloading instead of buying it, you're cutting away a tiny fraction of their income.

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

drcorn
Newbie

Jul 9, 2008, 1:16 PM

Post #13 of 25 (179 views)
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Artists wont make music if they get nothing for it. People need to eat.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery
None but ourselves can free our minds�

Sneep
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Jul 9, 2008, 2:24 PM

Post #14 of 25 (176 views)
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Speak for yourself.

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

Jindrak
Veteran

Jul 9, 2008, 4:29 PM

Post #15 of 25 (171 views)
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Re: [Sneep] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Routhy hasn't eaten since he had that sandwich two years ago
wait, is it called a sandwich still if its missing a piece of bread
huh

"In the words of every extreme sports fanatic, it looks fun, you go first."
-Penn Gillette

TazG
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Jul 10, 2008, 3:31 AM

Post #16 of 25 (164 views)
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In Reply To

Artists wont make music if they get nothing for it

first off, they do get paid no matter what

and yes, they would.

does whatever a spidertazg does

Sneep
Veteran

Jul 10, 2008, 4:23 AM

Post #17 of 25 (162 views)
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In Reply To

Routhy hasn't eaten since he had that sandwich two years ago
wait, is it called a sandwich still if its missing a piece of bread
huh

I'm sure the bread was there when the sandwich was made, it simply does not appear to be visible on the picture.

The odd thing is, the sandwich is on the plate, not behind it, so there's no plausible reason for the lack of bread

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

Loads O Fire
Senior Member

Jul 10, 2008, 6:03 PM

Post #18 of 25 (148 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

Of course they deserve to be paid, but not as much as they currently are. I think downloading music, at the moment, will help strengthen the music industry. For years, prices for CDs have been far too overpriced, some may say "Well prices raised because people started downloading music. Not true. Prices raised before file sharing was even around. The huge music downloading problem came as a result of record prices rising. I look back at bands like Backstreet Boys, and N-sinq (I don't give a crap how its spelt), which were formed plain and simply to make money, and that to me, is what started the problem.

Terrible music being sold for ridiculous prices.

Now, I look at one of the most successful artists (Or at least from my opinion) Nine Inch Nails. Even though I'm not a big fan of their music anymore, they're a perfect example of a band that isn't out to make money. The past 2 CDs they've released have been downloadable on their website for free, each and every song. Even though their most recent CD was pretty terrible, I respect them for doing what their doing, making music, to make music.

A long, long, time ago, music used to mean something to the people creating it, and for some musicians thats still true now. The downside is that the majority of the musicians out right now, are in it for the money, and nothing else. Music should mean something, and when its just a business, it means nothing to me.

Eventually the music industry will realize the only way they're going to reduce the amount of music being downloaded, is to back off, lower prices, and let bands make the decisions. Just like almost everything else, once its turned into a business, it isn't the same. Even though musicians should be intised by the money, it shouldn't be the reason they create their songs.

Quote

Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails made headlines again this week as he released his new, four-part instrumental album Ghosts I-IV, at a variety of price points, including a $300 super-deluxe package. He's also giving away Ghosts I at no charge, even throwing the tracks up on The Pirate Bay for anyone to download. And it appears to be working quite well for Reznor, who has managed to sell all 2,500 copies of his $300 package without major label backing or much in the way of splashy marketing. If Reznor's earlier experiments in digital distribution failed to recoup their costs, he's clearly learned his lesson: grossing $750,000 in the space of three days isn't a bad haul for any businessperson.

That to me, is amazing, and proves a very important point. Even though he gives away his CD for FREE on the internet, he made close to a million dollars, and its still a fairly recent CD. Hes serring a very, very good example to new bands.

A video about basically everything I'm talking about

I don't want to keep talking about NIN, but after talking about I've found out he thinks EXACTLY the same way I do about downloading music.

Another good video

(This post was edited by Loads O Fire on Jul 10, 2008, 7:13 PM)

Dr. Funk
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Jul 10, 2008, 6:09 PM

Post #19 of 25 (142 views)
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In Reply To

Backstreet Boys

hey man justin timberlake is a good actor and the movie alpha dog ruled ok

[12:35] Taz: tazg knows how to say arkansas, lol

Pheylan
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Jul 11, 2008, 6:43 AM

Post #20 of 25 (126 views)
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You didn't really explain why their art should be bought instead of freely distributed.

"Fuck man, this is Britain. I don't care how many people you've murdered, you don't jump to the front of a queue. It's just not the done thing."
--Mr. Flunchy

Nightshiver
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Jul 11, 2008, 4:12 PM

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Yay! finally a topic i have some kind of real point of view on.

The only way you can accurately answer this is if you've been in the position of the artists yourself. People dont understand how much time and effort it takes to put on even the smallest show, let alone full blown tours and concerts. It's incredibly tiring and the biggest hassle you can ever imagine.
So in the respect of live shows, yes artists should be payed reasonable amounts for tickets. After all they are getting up in front of you and essentially working for the money you spent. And it is very mentally and physically challenging. Hence the reason why your hard pressed to find an out of shape full time musician.

As far as record sales and such go. as stated above, musicians have to eat like everyone else. I for one wouldn't bother organizing a band, and working every second of my life to keep things moving and together if i weren't able to build a career off of it.
Don't get me wrong, i would never stop playing music in my personal time, but i would never bother to go through the stages of production it requires to get the music into the listeners hands either.

Another reason for selling music instead of giving it away is production costs. On a professional level, your average song costs around $12,000 to be fully recorded and produced... and thats not even using some of the better names in the industry... thats just if you were to settle for what ever mixer and mastering engineer the studio threw your way.. now multiply that by how many songs are on a CD.
Is it fair to ask someone to throw away hundreds of thousands of dollars and not get anything in return, just so you can have another song on your iPod?

Music isn't all fun and games, in fact the only time it is fun is when your on stage, and even that is a good bit of work.
Ever other second is spent in a mountain of paper work or on the phone trying to get something done. It really is alot of hard work.
Musicians are just your average working folk who decided to make a career out of their passions instead of what ever miserable job came their way. regardless it is still work, but not your typical 9 to 5. there are no set hours so your often stuck working 24 hours a days.. and you never get a day off..
the only thing that makes this job even close to worth doing is when you actually get on stage and get the chance to play. otherwise it really isnt glamorous or fun by any means. and just like your average non-glamorous, and not fun office job, the people who work in work it deserve a paycheck for their efforts like anyone else

EDIT: by the way guys... dont try to label me as one of the guys in those new bands that are just here for the money... i spent just under $10,000 on getting 5,000 CDs pressed for this tour.. and im giving every single one of those away personally.. i also have 10,000 stickers with me im giving away and like 50 tour posters... all of it free, and all of it cost me ALOT of money..
The other guys in the band are doing the same thing...
I'm in this because i love doing it.. but my view on this particular subject comes from the fact that if i want to keep doing it, i need to be able to make a living off of it...

-Nightshiver

Jammer [FmJ] says:
i tell you what - on your world tour - I will come see you when you play melbourne
Jammer [FmJ] says:
and if you are lucky - I will through my undies on stage

(This post was edited by Nightshiver on Jul 11, 2008, 4:21 PM)

Sneep
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Jul 11, 2008, 5:29 PM

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In Reply To

Hence the reason why your hard pressed to find an out of shape full time musician.

Meatloaf

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

(This post was edited by Sneep on Jul 11, 2008, 5:34 PM)

Nightshiver
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Jul 11, 2008, 8:17 PM

Post #23 of 25 (105 views)
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Re: [Sneep] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

.....

hence his name.... Meatloaf..................

despite his figure.. he could probably run circles around most of us to be honest lol

-Nightshiver

Jammer [FmJ] says:
i tell you what - on your world tour - I will come see you when you play melbourne
Jammer [FmJ] says:
and if you are lucky - I will through my undies on stage

Sneep
Veteran

Jul 11, 2008, 11:34 PM

Post #24 of 25 (104 views)
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Re: [Nightshiver] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

He got deliberately overweight to fail the army physical when he was drafted.

"yeah I wouldn't ban them from here even if I could. It's like old General vs. new General. We'll see which one turns out better right guys?" - TazG on XBC vs General

nadkicker69
Veteran / Moderator

Jul 22, 2008, 10:54 AM

Post #25 of 25 (67 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] Do artists deserve to be paid for their music? [In reply to]	Can't Post

If it's on the radio, it should be fair game to download it. Hell, it's already played 100,000,000 times for no cost to the listener!

If it's not on the radio, or on the artist's site as a promotional, or any legally acquired whatnot, then no, you shouldn't be downloading - that's why you buy the CD.

Do artists deserve to be paid? Yeah. That's why they come out with discs and records and stuff - so they can get paid. Yeah, it's a job and they have to get paid somehow, so out comes the discs and records for the listeners to buy should they like the music they heard on the radio.

=
I am the Jester. I make the unreal real.

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