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Free Games Forum: General: Debating Forum:
The Historicity of Jesus Christ.

 

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Jindrak
Veteran


Jun 25, 2008, 3:04 PM

Post #101 of 129 (229 views)
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Re: [Muchuchu] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Ignorant people who have never once taken a religious class think that all of the Books of the Old Testament are real pieces of history. Most of the books are just analogies that we are supposed to learn lessons from. If you don't know or realize that then that just shows you have no idea what you are talking about in the first place.


I honestly don't see how you can pick and choose which is right to follow since it is all supposed to be written by people under the influence of God anyway. I mean God is all-knowing, he saw the future and should have been able to right rules which outlast time right?



Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Some call me the gangster of love
Some people call me Maurice
Cause I speak of the pompitous of love





coolgreencat
Senior Member

Jun 25, 2008, 3:27 PM

Post #102 of 129 (225 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Ignorant people who have never once taken a religious class think that all of the Books of the Old Testament are real pieces of history. Most of the books are just analogies that we are supposed to learn lessons from. If you don't know or realize that then that just shows you have no idea what you are talking about in the first place.


I honestly don't see how you can pick and choose which is right to follow since it is all supposed to be written by people under the influence of God anyway. I mean God is all-knowing, he saw the future and should have been able to right rules which outlast time right?

He did.


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Jindrak
Veteran


Jun 25, 2008, 3:46 PM

Post #103 of 129 (223 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Ignorant people who have never once taken a religious class think that all of the Books of the Old Testament are real pieces of history. Most of the books are just analogies that we are supposed to learn lessons from. If you don't know or realize that then that just shows you have no idea what you are talking about in the first place.


I honestly don't see how you can pick and choose which is right to follow since it is all supposed to be written by people under the influence of God anyway. I mean God is all-knowing, he saw the future and should have been able to right rules which outlast time right?

He did.


"And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food."
—Genesis 1:29

I want my goddamn poppies back.



Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Some call me the gangster of love
Some people call me Maurice
Cause I speak of the pompitous of love





(This post was edited by Jindrak on Jun 25, 2008, 3:50 PM)


Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator


Jun 25, 2008, 7:04 PM

Post #104 of 129 (211 views)
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Re: [coolgreencat] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently you're not familiar with gnosticism. Thats the theory I was purporting. For one so well researched in ancient Christianity, I am surprised.


Follow your destiny, become a legend. Kiss the Don's ring, or DIE. Reign of the Samurai Blood Mobsters, an all new GAMES from http://free-games.com.au


Nitrous™
Enthusiast


Aug 24, 2008, 11:59 PM

Post #105 of 129 (153 views)
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Re: [coolgreencat] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

OK so I've read through this entire thread and thought its time for me to add my 2 cents in. I've copy-pasted some quotes worth replying to (or at least those i can reply to)


In Reply To
So if I write a paper saying that dinossaurs came back to Earth on a spaceship, took it over, and then an atomic bomb launched by the vietnamits killed them and someone finds this paper 2000 years from now they should take it as a fact?


Your paper would be rejected and wouldnt be printed. The Bible has billions of copies that has been proven by historians as historical documentation.


In Reply To
As I said, Jesus might have existed.



Quote
Jesus is a lie



Lol What?


In Reply To
how can you prove what the bible says even has any merit? it was written by men and has been edited by men many times over 2000 years.



Its language has been changed and there may be errors in translation. Doesnt mean its actually been CHANGED to suit the argument of christianity at all.


In Reply To
My main problem is because the Bible in itself is a huge contradiction.


Not really. People dont get the fact that the new testament restructures or rephrases rules and stuff (using stories, parables etc) that have been misconscrewed by people when reading the old testament.

People also take parables and metaphors from the bible and misconscrew them to be claims of fact and use that against christianity. People we know they are not true, we never claimed they were true, they are fictional stories with a moral, the moral is what Jesus is teaching, so dont prove them wrong and say "theres no evidence that someone woke up in the middle of the night and thought his father was calling him but it was actually God" and then go on to say "if this is wrong, then what makes anything else from the Bible wrong?" Ive heard it too many times and it annoys the crap out of me.


In Reply To
I don't feel like getting into this thread, but suffice it to say you're a dumbass


LOL (This was just worth a reply)


So thats my opinion on the matter. Lets hear those criticisms.


"OBTW, SPAM COP, YOU [Expletive Deleted]ING SUCK"
-Papa Smurf


n.

(This post was edited by Nitrous™ on Sep 1, 2008, 6:20 PM)


edinburgh4
Newbie

Aug 30, 2008, 1:07 AM

Post #106 of 129 (139 views)
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Re: [Nitrous™] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

The site: is-the-bible-reliable.org has a couple of interesting videos on these subjects:

One called:

are the New Testament Documents Reliable?

And another

The Easter Story: An Historical Investigation


Blackworm25
Senior Member


Aug 31, 2008, 11:39 AM

Post #107 of 129 (129 views)
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Re: [Nitrous™] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
So if I write a paper saying that dinossaurs came back to Earth on a spaceship, took it over, and then an atomic bomb launched by the vietnamits killed them and someone finds this paper 2000 years from now they should take it as a fact?


Your paper would be rejected and wouldnt be printed. The Bible has billions of copies that has been proven by historians as historical documentation.

Although I agree with your points and I *AM* Catholic, I'm going to have to say that this isn't necessarily true. Ever heard of L Ron Hubbard? Yeah, the guy who started the Church of $cientology. His religion managed to spread by lies and theft, and at the last moment, revealing the truth behind the religion. The truth: Xenu.

In Reply To

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.
Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.
Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xenu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.
The story doesn't end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a "thetan" in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).
After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called "implanting".
When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.
As for Xenu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xenu is still alive today.

We both know that this is a ridiculous story. Yet, there are many people who believe that it's true, simply because they are afraid of the "Fair game" Policy. Fear makes them believe it.


<===(------------------------
"LOOKS LIKE A HUGE PENIS."
-Ninjaboy421

"Lee split his army and attacked Hooker from both sides at Chancellorsville..."


coolgreencat
Senior Member

Aug 31, 2008, 1:36 PM

Post #108 of 129 (124 views)
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Re: [Blackworm25] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

Fear of what, these are converted Jews.

If Jesus was not the messiah they were going to go to hell, so if they knew he wasn't, why did they die for it?


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Blackworm25
Senior Member


Sep 1, 2008, 1:43 PM

Post #109 of 129 (118 views)
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In Reply To
Fear of what, these are converted Jews.

If Jesus was not the messiah they were going to go to hell, so if they knew he wasn't, why did they die for it?



Fear that if maybe he IS the messiah, they're all [Expletive Deleted]ed.


This is coming from the keyboard of a Catholic person, too. I'm just trying not to be biased.


<===(------------------------
"LOOKS LIKE A HUGE PENIS."
-Ninjaboy421

"Lee split his army and attacked Hooker from both sides at Chancellorsville..."


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Sep 1, 2008, 1:43 PM

Post #110 of 129 (118 views)
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Re: [Blackworm25] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
So if I write a paper saying that dinossaurs came back to Earth on a spaceship, took it over, and then an atomic bomb launched by the vietnamits killed them and someone finds this paper 2000 years from now they should take it as a fact?


Your paper would be rejected and wouldnt be printed. The Bible has billions of copies that has been proven by historians as historical documentation.

Although I agree with your points and I *AM* Catholic, I'm going to have to say that this isn't necessarily true. Ever heard of L Ron Hubbard? Yeah, the guy who started the Church of $cientology. His religion managed to spread by lies and theft, and at the last moment, revealing the truth behind the religion. The truth: Xenu.


wait, what are you trying to say? that L Ron's writings are verified by historians? I can't conceive of why you would bring this up, there is absolutely no relevance


In Reply To
Fear makes them believe it.

no it doesn't.




In Reply To
This is coming from the keyboard of a Catholic person, too. I'm just trying not to be biased.

unfortunately you probably are because catholicism makes up their own shit (like praying to a 15 year old) and doesn't follow the bible or encourage anyone to learn its history.


a brilliant Japanese cryptographer/physicist
developed binary code travelling the speed of intellectual property
in Ireland.

(This post was edited by TazG on Sep 1, 2008, 1:47 PM)


Blackworm25
Senior Member


Sep 1, 2008, 1:49 PM

Post #111 of 129 (111 views)
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Re: [TazG] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, I think Catholicism blows. I want to convert but I can't find any better religion. Maybe I should just make up my own.

And about L Ron Hubbard, I didn't say it would be verified by historians, I'm saying it's accepted for fact with no proof.


<===(------------------------
"LOOKS LIKE A HUGE PENIS."
-Ninjaboy421

"Lee split his army and attacked Hooker from both sides at Chancellorsville..."


neocloud101
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 2:21 PM

Post #112 of 129 (105 views)
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Re: [TazG] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

wait uh, did he say fear makes them believe in Christianity or what? because if so, that's correct for the most part. every reason that any christian guerrilla used had to do with the afterlife putting me in hell and him or her in heaven unless i believe in Jesus. i dont think they came up with any other reason, now that i think of it.

one of the private school teachers once said to me, "this is how it works. If christianity is not correct, then we're both good. If it is, only i am." What the hell, he would never have even cared for Jesus's teachings if they didnt say that there would be consequences if he didnt...


"If you are a hero, you must be wearing clothes.
This is the new rule."

-- Jindrak

(This post was edited by neocloud101 on Sep 1, 2008, 2:22 PM)


Dr. Funk
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 2:23 PM

Post #113 of 129 (103 views)
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In Reply To
Actually, I think Catholicism blows. I want to convert but I can't find any better religion. Maybe I should just make up my own.

Agnosticism doesn't necessarily mean disregarding the possibility of all gods existing.

Personally I can't follow a single religion because they all contain beliefs that I agree with and disagree with - they all speak in metaphorical terms for what we should and shouldn't do in life. They're manuals to existence, so to speak.

Perhaps there's another word for it, but I don't know.


TIME FOR SEX


neocloud101
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 2:24 PM

Post #114 of 129 (102 views)
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Re: [Dr. Funk] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

well thats why I like Sikhism. It's more about making life better on Earth, rather than any concern of the afterlife. There's no set of history or rules to obey or anything. It's just pretty much philosophy more than anything. And they just believe in God, nothing more. Most of us believe in reincarnation, but I myself don't care


"If you are a hero, you must be wearing clothes.
This is the new rule."

-- Jindrak


coolgreencat
Senior Member

Sep 1, 2008, 3:41 PM

Post #115 of 129 (95 views)
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In Reply To
Actually, I think Catholicism blows. I want to convert but I can't find any better religion. Maybe I should just make up my own.

...hat's not how it works


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coolgreencat
Senior Member

Sep 1, 2008, 3:44 PM

Post #116 of 129 (94 views)
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In Reply To
well thats why I like Sikhism. It's more about making life better on Earth, rather than any concern of the afterlife. There's no set of history or rules to obey or anything. It's just pretty much philosophy more than anything. And they just believe in God, nothing more. Most of us believe in reincarnation, but I myself don't care

Thats like Deism, which I would be if it wasn't for this argument I poorly laid out

and liking a religion doesn't make it anymore or less true


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neocloud101
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 4:08 PM

Post #117 of 129 (91 views)
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In Reply To
and liking a religion doesn't make it anymore or less true

see thats the thing about christians. all they care about is what is "right" or what is "wrong". whats "correct" and "incorrect". Whats going to give them heaven or give them hell. theyre all concerned about what theyre going to get out of it. thats why Christianity is so appealing. it just makes you think that as long as youre not going to burn in hell for eternity after you die, nothing else matters and that others should be afraid enough of hell to agree with you.


"If you are a hero, you must be wearing clothes.
This is the new rule."

-- Jindrak


coolgreencat
Senior Member

Sep 1, 2008, 4:18 PM

Post #118 of 129 (86 views)
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Re: [neocloud101] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
and liking a religion doesn't make it anymore or less true

see thats the thing about christians. all they care about is what is "right" or what is "wrong". whats "correct" and "incorrect". Whats going to give them heaven or give them hell. theyre all concerned about what theyre going to get out of it. thats why Christianity is so appealing. it just makes you think that as long as youre not going to burn in hell for eternity after you die, nothing else matters and that others should be afraid enough of hell to agree with you.


what??? of course whats right matters, I would rather knowingly follow the right religion than the wrong one

most people follow a religion because someone told them it was right, not because they are afraid of hell. if they were afraid of hell they could follow any religion

also hell is not what popular culture makes it, but thats a different conversation


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neocloud101
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 4:26 PM

Post #119 of 129 (83 views)
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In Reply To
what??? of course whats right matters, I would rather knowingly follow the right religion than the wrong one

What defines the "right religion" exactly? You don't know much about other religions to even understand what the point of it all is.


In Reply To
if they were afraid of hell they could follow any religion

...Okay. Christianity and Islam are like the only two major religions in the world that have anything to do with hell. You don't get it, do you? Hell is not the consequence of every religion. Sikhism doesn't state that if you are not Sikh you go to Hell or something similar. Nor does Buddhism. Nor does Hinduism. Nor does Taoism. Nor does Confucianism. Most religions don't even have a consequence for not believing in it. They're just guidelines to life and a need for spiritual understanding about what's beyond. You just think they do because that's how Christianity and Islam work, but they are not the defining factors of a religion...


"If you are a hero, you must be wearing clothes.
This is the new rule."

-- Jindrak

(This post was edited by neocloud101 on Sep 1, 2008, 4:27 PM)


coolgreencat
Senior Member

Sep 1, 2008, 4:37 PM

Post #120 of 129 (78 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
what??? of course whats right matters, I would rather knowingly follow the right religion than the wrong one

What defines the "right religion" exactly? You don't know much about other religions to even understand what the point of it all is.

The evidence supports Christianity, so, Christianity is right is how I define it


In Reply To
if they were afraid of hell they could follow any religion

...Okay. Christianity and Islam are like the only two major religions in the world that have anything to do with hell. You don't get it, do you? Hell is not the consequence of every religion. Sikhism doesn't state that if you are not Sikh you go to Hell or something similar. Nor does Buddhism. Nor does Hinduism. Nor does Taoism. Nor does Confucianism. Most religions don't even have a consequence for not believing in it. They're just guidelines to life and a need for spiritual understanding about what's beyond. You just think they do because that's how Christianity and Islam work, but they are not the defining factors of a religion...

Judaism too, but that doesn't matter

just because you like that a religion doesn't have rewards or punishments for not embracing it still doesn't make it any less

and I didn't think anything about other religions, I know what most eastern cultures generally believe


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neocloud101
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 4:42 PM

Post #121 of 129 (77 views)
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The evidence doesn't support Christianity, it could as easily be a religion supported by currently well known facts just used to support the Bible, you wouldn't be able to know. And when it comes to God, there's no real evidence, just faith. And my faith tells me that God would not send humans to Earth for the sole purpose of going to Hell unless they "believed" in something.


"If you are a hero, you must be wearing clothes.
This is the new rule."

-- Jindrak


coolgreencat
Senior Member

Sep 1, 2008, 4:47 PM

Post #122 of 129 (74 views)
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In Reply To
The evidence doesn't support Christianity, it could as easily be a religion supported by currently well known facts just used to support the Bible, you wouldn't be able to know. And when it comes to God, there's no real evidence, just faith. And my faith tells me that God would not send humans to Earth for the sole purpose of going to Hell unless they "believed" in something.


holy [Expletive Deleted] now we're on topic

I dont understand what you mean by "it could as easily be a religion supported by currently well known facts just used to support the Bible, you wouldn't be able to know."

"And when it comes to God, there's no real evidence,"

unless you mean the harmony of scientific laws or the extreme unlikely hood of a life supporting universe

or something


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(This post was edited by coolgreencat on Sep 1, 2008, 4:47 PM)


neocloud101
Veteran


Sep 1, 2008, 4:58 PM

Post #123 of 129 (69 views)
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Re: [coolgreencat] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
The evidence doesn't support Christianity, it could as easily be a religion supported by currently well known facts just used to support the Bible, you wouldn't be able to know. And when it comes to God, there's no real evidence, just faith. And my faith tells me that God would not send humans to Earth for the sole purpose of going to Hell unless they "believed" in something.


I dont understand what you mean by "it could as easily be a religion supported by currently well known facts just used to support the Bible, you wouldn't be able to know."

"And when it comes to God, there's no real evidence,"

unless you mean the harmony of scientific laws or the extreme unlikely hood of a life supporting universe

or something

actually i still wasnt really on topic very much. i mean like, take the Dead Sea for example. Supposedly, thats the evidence of sodom and gommorrah. but that could easily just be an already-screwed up sea with high levels of sulfur that people fixed the Bible history up to say it was around the Dead Sea, to use that. You wouldnt know since the Bible has been edited so many times.
And while I always have and always will believe in God creating our universe, yes, there's no proof of his existence and Science could very well explain all of it. While it's unlikely, look at how many trillions of planets there are. There's got to be at least one or two times it got it right. But what I meant by faith was what religious history would be the outcome of God's giving life to the Earth, whether the Bible has the correct interpretation of that. And I have complete faith that He would never force us into Hell with the 1/1000 chance of going to Heaven. Like i've always said but people don't seem to understand, why can't God be the who and Science be the how?


"If you are a hero, you must be wearing clothes.
This is the new rule."

-- Jindrak


coolgreencat
Senior Member

Sep 1, 2008, 5:02 PM

Post #124 of 129 (66 views)
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Re: [neocloud101] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post

please space that out if you really want to "debate"


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Nitrous™
Enthusiast


Sep 1, 2008, 5:03 PM

Post #125 of 129 (64 views)
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Re: [neocloud101] The Historicity of Jesus Christ. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Bible has been edited so many times.


I am yet to see an edit in the points made by the Bible. Show them to me. Now.

EDIT: "why can't God be the who and Science be the how?"

So true. Sigging that.

Always wondered that. Everyone uses science to "disprove" the existance of God whereas it could easily explain HOW God created the world.


"OBTW, SPAM COP, YOU [Expletive Deleted]ING SUCK"
-Papa Smurf


n.

(This post was edited by Nitrous™ on Sep 1, 2008, 5:16 PM)

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