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Free Games Forum: General: Debating Forum:
big bang? millions of years?

 

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MegaGraphiteMan
Member

Dec 21, 2006, 11:55 AM

Post #1 of 28 (345 views)
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big bang? millions of years? Can't Post

the big bang, was said to make all of the unvierse weve come to know. is it true? no. and here is the reason.
the big bang, was said to start out as an atomic egg an atom. and then it was said to explode is this true?
well, when this "egg" blew up it would not have placed everything so neat and tidy as it did. it would have exploded and everything would move for ever. now even if it was true, then all the planets would have to rotate in the same direction, well pluto and other planets in the milky way rotate in the opposite direction as the other planets. so from whereim at now, it looks to me if there is a god he has a sense of humor, i mean he did create human after all(im a creationalist by the way). and if you still dont beleve me, then where did this atomic egg come from huh? did aliens drop it there? where did the aliens come from? there has to be some sort of higher power, or god, for anything to have happened.

Now, as for the theory of the earth being millions of years old or billions of years old let me disprove this now.
did you know that the sun gets 5 feet smaller every hour? or that the moon gets about an inch and a half farther every year? or that the gravitational pull weakens by half every 1340 years? or even that the moon gains about a cm of dust every like 500 years? well about 20 million years ago the sun would be touching the earth, making life impossible. 20 million years ago the moon would be soo close that the waves on earth would be huge, and flood the earth 2wice a day. and it has been proven that man can only drown once a day. and did you know about 1 million years ago the gravitational pull would be so strong it would make the earth incredibly to hot to live on, for that matter 2 hot. and last, the moon only has approximatly 3 inches of dust, thats only about 6000-7000 years old.


so inconclusion, the earth is only about 6000-7000 years old

debate how you want i have stated my point.


Yep its blank



Arkanor
Veteran


Dec 21, 2006, 12:13 PM

Post #2 of 28 (340 views)
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Re: [MegaGraphiteMan] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
the big bang, was said to make all of the unvierse weve come to know. is it true? no. and here is the reason.
the big bang, was said to start out as an atomic egg an atom. and then it was said to explode is this true?
well, when this "egg" blew up it would not have placed everything so neat and tidy as it did. it would have exploded and everything would move for ever. now even if it was true, then all the planets would have to rotate in the same direction, well pluto and other planets in the milky way rotate in the opposite direction as the other planets. so from whereim at now, it looks to me if there is a god he has a sense of humor, i mean he did create human after all(im a creationalist by the way). and if you still dont beleve me, then where did this atomic egg come from huh? did aliens drop it there? where did the aliens come from? there has to be some sort of higher power, or god, for anything to have happened.

Now, as for the theory of the earth being millions of years old or billions of years old let me disprove this now.
did you know that the sun gets 5 feet smaller every hour? or that the moon gets about an inch and a half farther every year? or that the gravitational pull weakens by half every 1340 years? or even that the moon gains about a cm of dust every like 500 years? well about 20 million years ago the sun would be touching the earth, making life impossible. 20 million years ago the moon would be soo close that the waves on earth would be huge, and flood the earth 2wice a day. and it has been proven that man can only drown once a day. and did you know about 1 million years ago the gravitational pull would be so strong it would make the earth incredibly to hot to live on, for that matter 2 hot. and last, the moon only has approximatly 3 inches of dust, thats only about 6000-7000 years old.


so inconclusion, the earth is only about 6000-7000 years old

debate how you want i have stated my point.


Lol. No, wait. LOL. LMAO. LMFAO. ROFLMFAOWTFBBQPWNDLOLNOOB. Ok, Mr. creationalist.

Your entire 'argument' is full of false premises without proof. Like, you insist that if the Big Bang were to occur, every planetary body would need to rotate in the same direction. Yet, you have no proof for this assertion. You take it for granted and assume that it's true. Also you assume that the existence of God means that the universe cannot be more than 6000 to 7000 years old - why is this so? That's basically saying "God exists therefore the Universe is only 6k years old". It makes no sense. If you're trying to make the tired old argument about God creating everything in six days, then... Why can't each of the 'days' in the Bible be an immense period of time? Does one of God's "days" correspond to a Terran day?

I doubt that the Earth's gravity weakens by half every 1.34k years. And I doubt also that you have any conception of the truly IMMENSE distances involved between the Earth and the Sun, or the concept of planetary drift. Btw I don't understand your connection of "gravity = heat". I could go on but I don't need to.

Taz, can you help educate him? At least teach him to make a valid argument in favor of Creationism?


(This post was edited by Arkanor on Dec 21, 2006, 12:15 PM)


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 21, 2006, 3:22 PM

Post #3 of 28 (326 views)
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Re: [Arkanor] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Like, you insist that if the Big Bang were to occur, every planetary body would need to rotate in the same direction. Yet, you have no proof for this assertion. You take it for granted and assume that it's true.

Yeah, he did.

In Reply To
Also you assume that the existence of God means that the universe cannot be more than 6000 to 7000 years old

No, he didn't. The second paragraph had nothing to do with God...

In Reply To
If you're trying to make the tired old argument about God creating everything in six days, then... Why can't each of the 'days' in the Bible be an immense period of time?

Problems with the Gap Theory.

In Reply To
Btw I don't understand your connection of "gravity = heat".

Well, I guess the only way for gravity to increase is to have the sun closer to Earth, which would of course make it hotter on Earth...


In Reply To
Taz, can you help educate him? At least teach him to make a valid argument in favor of Creationism?

I've posted this in another thread, as well as many arguments I've made myself while arguing with Invidious. It's sort of annoying how there's an increasing amount of topics that all basically merge into the same one eventually.

*goes to bed*


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(This post was edited by TazG on Dec 21, 2006, 3:22 PM)


Arkanor
Veteran


Dec 21, 2006, 3:26 PM

Post #4 of 28 (322 views)
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Re: [TazG] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

*looks at your post*

*looks at my post*

*wonders why my post has the mistakes it does*

Reasons not to try 'multitasking'...

*also goes to bed*


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 22, 2006, 12:47 AM

Post #5 of 28 (310 views)
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Re: [MegaGraphiteMan] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

K, I'm not tired now so I'll read the post again with a better functioning mind.


In Reply To
the big bang, was said to make all of the unvierse weve come to know. is it true? no. and here is the reason.
the big bang, was said to start out as an atomic egg an atom. and then it was said to explode is this true?
well, when this "egg" blew up it would not have placed everything so neat and tidy as it did. it would have exploded and everything would move for ever. now even if it was true, then all the planets would have to rotate in the same direction, well pluto and other planets in the milky way rotate in the opposite direction as the other planets. so from whereim at now, it looks to me if there is a god he has a sense of humor, i mean he did create human after all(im a creationalist by the way). and if you still dont beleve me, then where did this atomic egg come from huh? did aliens drop it there? where did the aliens come from? there has to be some sort of higher power, or god, for anything to have happened.

I think the problem with the big bang theory is also its redeeming quality and the reason some people still use it: It's vague. Anything can happen. These are the same people who say that creationists all argue that "God works in mysterious ways" when actually most creationists I know of have facts and logic surrounding their arguments. If you look at a Big Bang argument, it is just a growing pile of vague "possibilities" that really all boils down to "the Big Bang works in mysterious ways."

If a believer of this theory replied to your post that's what you would get. You find that there is really only a couple facts backing up the basic assumption. You'll find a bunch of math and science explaining what would have happened afterwards assuming the big bang actually happened, so it appears to be supporting the theory, but if you take out the initial assumptions or "possibilities", it's irrelevant. And if you look closer, you find that the Big Bang doesn't even explain the origin of the universe in the first place. In an attempt to dismiss the possibility of intelligent creation, most of them will say something about how the universe shrunk to form the beginning of the explosion. Not only does the "possibility" of the universe being in a cycle make little to no sense, it doesn't explain its existence in the least.

The main basis for all of this (the one that is actually based on facts, that is) is the observation that the universe is expanding. So, this is like looking at someone blowing up a balloon, and assuming that the balloon has always been growing and therefore started at an infinitely small size, and that's how the balloon began its existence. Well that doesn't really explain how it got there so let's say it used to be really big and then it shrunk and blew up again. And that's why the balloon is getting bigger. That's silly. The balloon used to be smaller, and someone started blowing it up. Duh.

Why should the movement of galaxies be traced so far back to an impossible starting point? If everything in the universe is in some kind of orbit on such a large scale, humans don't have the time to watch their movement long enough to get a good sample and conclude the full "flight path". But that's what they did to invent this theory. They assumed that everything started from one single point, even though nobody really has a clue how that could possibly work and it doesn't explain why everything exists anyway.


In Reply To
2wice

lol

In Reply To
and it has been proven that man can only drown once a day.

lol



In Reply To
If you're trying to make the tired old argument about God creating everything in six days, then... Why can't each of the 'days' in the Bible be an immense period of time?

Arkanor it's funny that you called that a tired old argument, because it wasn't even an argument. It was just generally accepted until the gap theory challenged it, and the gap theory has countless problems that have been exposed for a long time now. So in this case you're the one using the "tired old argument".


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Zena
Senior Member


Dec 22, 2006, 2:55 AM

Post #6 of 28 (304 views)
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Re: [MegaGraphiteMan] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

If there was no big bang then where would have everything come from? God didn't do it (belive what you want I know im right). No one knows the full story about the big bang, if it did start from an egg then were did the egg come from? They dont just appear in space now do they. I think that the big bang did exist, and when it did it happend on earth instead of the middle of space. Im probably not getting my view on this very straight forward. Let me do a load of replies.

In Reply To
Now, as for the theory of the earth being millions of years old or billions of years old let me disprove this now.

It's impossible for you to disprove that. NOBODY on the earth nows how the earth exactly is. We know that there were cavemen and dinos and they existed millions of years ago, and thats true because we have dinosaur bones and they are proven to be millions of years old.


In Reply To
did you know that the sun gets 5 feet smaller every hour? or that the moon gets about an inch and a half farther every year? or that the gravitational pull weakens by half every 1340 years? or even that the moon gains about a cm of dust every like 500 years?

Nope, but im sure thats not true. Scientists explain all this hullabaloo, but it doesn't have to be true. Like the sunch grows 5 feet smaller everyday. How do they know that? Through a telescope or soemthing, cause nones ever been to the sun because it's too hot, and you cant look at it becuse it's too bright. It's simply impossible to know.

Also, do you think that the earth stayed in one place for how many years it's been living? No, it could have moved around space about a hundred times for all we know. And they say that the earth was once a ball of molten lava, how do they know that? Did someone travel back in time and lok at the earth? Dont think so. Theres all this scientific stuff that most of the time work, but there never is any REAL proof.

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the sun would be touching the earth, making life impossible.



Quote
gravitational pull would be so strong it would make the earth incredibly to hot to live on


The earth still would of existed back then, but no one or nothing actually lived on it.

Quote
so inconclusion, the earth is only about 6000-7000 years old

Then explain the dino's and the cavemen and everything else.




"Not all who wander are lost"--J.R.R. Tolkien.

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Spread the word.
(Copy and put this in the your sig)


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 22, 2006, 4:02 AM

Post #7 of 28 (299 views)
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Re: [Zena] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
We know that there were cavemen and dinos and they existed millions of years ago, and thats true because we have dinosaur bones and they are proven to be millions of years old.


Quote
Nope, but im sure thats not true. Scientists explain all this hullabaloo, but it doesn't have to be true. Like the sunch grows 5 feet smaller everyday. How do they know that? Through a telescope or soemthing, cause nones ever been to the sun because it's too hot, and you cant look at it becuse it's too bright. It's simply impossible to know.

No one's ever been to the sun, but of course they HAVE travelled millions of years in the past to prove there were dinosaurs that long ago right? You're saying they're right about the age of dinosaurs but wrong about the decay of the universe which is happening all around them? You fail miserably.


In Reply To

Quote
gravitational pull would be so strong it would make the earth incredibly to hot to live on


The earth still would of existed back then, but no one or nothing actually lived on it.

First of all you just contradicted what you said above. You said the sun never changed size. Which means it wouldn't be that close to the earth in the first place. Now, do you understand how gravity works? You think the earth would still exist, let alone support life, AFTER being sucked into the sun?


In Reply To
belive what you want I know im right

Get out. NOW.


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(This post was edited by TazG on Dec 22, 2006, 4:05 AM)


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 22, 2006, 4:08 AM

Post #8 of 28 (293 views)
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Re: [Zena] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think that the big bang did exist, and when it did it happend on earth instead of the middle of space.

What the crap?? Okay, I seriously have to stop reading this post. It's so utterly ridiculous it hurts my brain.


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loner
Senior Member


Dec 22, 2006, 6:57 AM

Post #9 of 28 (287 views)
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Re: [TazG] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
I think that the big bang did exist, and when it did it happend on earth instead of the middle of space.

What the crap?? Okay, I seriously have to stop reading this post. It's so utterly ridiculous it hurts my brain.

Welcome to the internet.


:3



MegaGraphiteMan
Member

Dec 22, 2006, 7:09 AM

Post #10 of 28 (284 views)
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Re: [loner] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

people have been contridicting my theory by saying there is no proof, but as you do, yo8u are also stating there is no proff for any of your evidence


Yep its blank


Arkanor
Veteran


Dec 22, 2006, 7:33 AM

Post #11 of 28 (282 views)
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Re: [MegaGraphiteMan] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

Almost done with my finals so I'll be able to give this more attention, and not make mistakes like in my last post.





In Reply To
the big bang, was said to start out as an atomic egg an atom. and then it was said to explode is this true?


Not technically an atom, but all the mass in the universe compressed into a veeeery small ball.


Quote
well, when this "egg" blew up it would not have placed everything so neat and tidy as it did. it would have exploded and everything would move for ever.


Which, by the way, is kind of what's happening. Everything is still moving outward - the universe is constantly expanding. There are scientific explanations for how planets, suns, galaxies formed, etc etc etc.


Quote
now even if it was true, then all the planets would have to rotate in the same direction, well pluto and other planets in the milky way rotate in the opposite direction as the other planets.


Um false premise.


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so from whereim at now, it looks to me if there is a god he has a sense of humor, i mean he did create human after all


Assumption. I personally believe that a higher power is responsible for creation but you can't just go "God created humans n thaX a faX IMO". At least try and explain it.


Quote
and if you still dont beleve me, then where did this atomic egg come from huh? did aliens drop it there? where did the aliens come from? there has to be some sort of higher power, or god, for anything to have happened.


Valid argument.


Quote
did you know that the sun gets 5 feet smaller every hour? or that the moon gets about an inch and a half farther every year? or that the gravitational pull weakens by half every 1340 years? or even that the moon gains about a cm of dust every like 500 years?


Citations please before I address the rest of your post.



If the universe 'n stuff are only 6-7k years old then why are objects that are carbon dated shown to be older than 6-7k years old? Why are there fossils of prehistoric man? Why are there dinosaur fossils? Did God just go "Oh yeah dis'll be kool ima creat fossles lol"? (Taz: "Yes.")

Why are we able to measure the time that it took light to travel to Earth as being millions or billions of years? Also if God created the Universe as-is, then WHY IS IT GETTING BIGGER? Because God wills it? Because it can? What caused the universe to expand?


-Xavier-
Veteran


Dec 22, 2006, 8:39 AM

Post #12 of 28 (277 views)
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Re: [Arkanor] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

TazG: No Araknor, fossils were rapidly formed by a massive flood. I've addressed this in the Creation VS Evolution thread.


(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)


Arkanor
Veteran


Dec 22, 2006, 9:48 AM

Post #13 of 28 (269 views)
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Re: [-Xavier-] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

To which I would respond: "Wait wut? Bones completely vanished and were replaced with mineral deposits in only 6000 years? Holy shat."


Shinysheep
Senior Member


Dec 22, 2006, 10:55 AM

Post #14 of 28 (263 views)
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Re: [Zena] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya, Big bang theory works, but there still needs to be something. The only problem is, if before the universe existed, there was nothing('cept the atom/thing), and the universe is constantly expanding, what is it expanding into?

Mabye the "Universe" is nothing but a cell, in some massive (By our standards) organism. And mabye every cell in the universe, is another universe.

Ya.

That's my stupid theory, please don't point out all the problems with it, I know them already.


Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.

(This post was edited by Shinysheep on Dec 22, 2006, 10:55 AM)


Jindrak
Veteran


Dec 22, 2006, 11:06 AM

Post #15 of 28 (259 views)
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Re: [Shinysheep] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

Haven't you seen MiB? Our universe is just a marble in some alien's bag o' marbles.



Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Some call me the gangster of love
Some people call me Maurice
Cause I speak of the pompitous of love





-Xavier-
Veteran


Dec 22, 2006, 12:24 PM

Post #16 of 28 (255 views)
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Re: [Jindrak] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

There could be an infinite number of universes, all forming the superverse, which could just be one superverse in many, all combining together to make God.

Lol, weird thoughts.


(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 23, 2006, 1:36 AM

Post #17 of 28 (244 views)
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Re: [Arkanor] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Not technically an atom, but all the mass in the universe compressed into a veeeery small ball.

Actually from what I've read they usually do describe it as some kind of "atomic bomb".


In Reply To
Everything is still moving outward - the universe is constantly expanding.

Your error is highlighted in red. Why presume that the conditions of the universe have never changed?
"So, this is like looking at someone blowing up a balloon, and assuming that the balloon has always been growing and therefore started at an infinitely small size, and that's how the balloon began its existence."

In Reply To
There are scientific explanations for how planets, suns, galaxies formed, etc etc etc.

"You'll find a bunch of math and science explaining what would have happened afterwards assuming the big bang actually happened, so it appears to be supporting the theory, but if you take out the initial assumptions or 'possibilities', it's irrelevant."


In Reply To
To which I would respond: "Wait wut? Bones completely vanished and were replaced with mineral deposits in only 6000 years? Holy shat."

See, this is why having multiple threads leading to the same basic arguments is annoying. Why should I have to re-explain everything? I even had to re-post what I said above in this thread. If you want to debate a topic please review it and post in the right thread. Although I'm itching to reply to this now, I know it will be a waste of time because we'll end up repeating the whole exchange I already went through in the other thread.


In Reply To
Why are we able to measure the time that it took light to travel to Earth as being millions or billions of years?

I know there is an explanation to this based on the theory of relativity. Here's a book on it, I haven't read it. But you can get an understanding of it by reading the reviews there.

In Reply To
Also if God created the Universe as-is, then WHY IS IT GETTING BIGGER? Because God wills it? Because it can? What caused the universe to expand?

Again, re-posting:
"Why should the movement of galaxies be traced so far back to an impossible starting point? If everything in the universe is in some kind of orbit on such a large scale, humans don't have the time to watch their movement long enough to get a good sample and conclude the full 'flight path'."
What, exactly, have we seen? First of all, obviously, we can't see the whole universe. Even if galaxies in our "local" area are on a direct path and not simply an orbit that is too large for us to see in our lifetime, it's quite a big assumption to say the entire universe is doing exactly the same thing and they all began in exactly the same spot. I mean, even if an explosion happened, it's much easier to explain it if it were a local explosion in an already existing universe that simply caused already existing surrounding mass to be pushed away. But personally I think the supposed proof of a uniformly expanding universe can just be explained by unseen gravity.
And I don't see how a changing universe contradicts creation. Creationist arguments are actually supported by a changing universe, whereas others often rely on the way things presently function and assuming it has always been the same. Including the idea that the universe came from one single point because it seems to be expanding - even if so, why should you assume it has ALWAYS been expanding at the SAME rate in the SAME direction??


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Golden Fox
Newbie

Dec 23, 2006, 11:14 AM

Post #18 of 28 (232 views)
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Re: [-Xavier-] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

no its impossible because it would have nothing to explode with.


to gases in the universe probably mixed together doing some trichinae [Expletive Deleted]


Shinjoiu
Veteran


Dec 23, 2006, 11:55 AM

Post #19 of 28 (226 views)
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Re: [MegaGraphiteMan] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
it would have exploded and everything would move for ever



ėver heard of einstein's theory of relativity?

thats what people think happened(and is happening).


Oh, and about the universe being neat and tidy... lol


Athlon XP
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 23, 2006, 3:46 PM

Post #20 of 28 (218 views)
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Re: [Golden Fox] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
no its impossible because it would have nothing to explode with.


to gases in the universe probably mixed together doing some trichinae [Expletive Deleted]


So where did the gases come from? Those two statements contradict each other. And we have enough creation threads in the Debate Forum; we should have a definitive one.


Lord I was born a shamblin' man
Archives (Newest Addition: The Judgment of Tate's Father)


Shinjoiu
Veteran


Dec 23, 2006, 6:52 PM

Post #21 of 28 (213 views)
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Re: [Athlon XP] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
no its impossible because it would have nothing to explode with.


to gases in the universe probably mixed together doing some trichinae [Expletive Deleted]


So where did the gases come from? Those two statements contradict each other. And we have enough creation threads in the Debate Forum; we should have a definitive one.

Those sentances might contradict eachother... but i dont no if thats wat he ment to say...
they dont look like sentances to me...
more like random words placed in a semi-logical order to make some semblence of a coherant thought.


Yogi
Newbie


Dec 23, 2006, 9:58 PM

Post #22 of 28 (211 views)
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Re: [MegaGraphiteMan] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is just one of those things that is useless to think about, at your age.


syncth
Senior Member

Dec 24, 2006, 1:27 AM

Post #23 of 28 (210 views)
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Re: [Yogi] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

As the great pheobe buffay said on the topic of evoloution "meh I cant buy it, it just seems too easy.


Shinysheep
Senior Member


Dec 24, 2006, 12:14 PM

Post #24 of 28 (207 views)
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Re: [Athlon XP] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine r teh definitive 1. It's the oldest, and the biggest.


and Athalon, the gasses came fr0m ur a$$ l0l ohsnap!oburnlol


EDIT: yeah, my topic even has "the definiative thread" in it's title.


Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis ad capul tuum saxum immane mittam.

(This post was edited by Shinysheep on Dec 24, 2006, 12:18 PM)


TazG
Veteran / Moderator


Dec 25, 2006, 5:41 AM

Post #25 of 28 (200 views)
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Re: [Yogi] big bang? millions of years? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This is just one of those things that is useless to think about, at your age.

Skanky will you please shut up.


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