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marijuana: a serious debate

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drcorn
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Sep 21, 2008, 5:50 PM

Post #1 of 94 (1045 views)
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marijuana: a serious debate	Can't Post

what's everyones oppinion on this. personally i spend my nights with friends getting stoned and watching avatar: the last airbender.
but that's probably just me.
so, discuss.

WHATEVER I'M A RACIST
- the big fag

ILB
Newbie

Sep 21, 2008, 5:53 PM

Post #2 of 94 (1042 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

Should have laws similar to alcohol since getting drunk and getting stoned are equally...... unethical.

Pheylan
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Sep 21, 2008, 6:33 PM

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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

It was cool but ultimately wasn't something I could bring with me if I was going to go anywhere in life.

drcorn
Member

Sep 21, 2008, 7:30 PM

Post #4 of 94 (1037 views)
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Re: [ILB] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Should have laws similar to alcohol since getting drunk and getting stoned are equally...... unethical.

hardly.
getting drunk and high are both probably unethical, yes. but getting drunk leads to further unethical activities. when i'm drunk i'm loud, stupid, and hazardous, none of which being of any winning combination.
when i'm stoned i'm friendly, tired, esoteric and hungry.
so they're obviously not of equal ethicality.
that being said, i have no problem with the laws of marijuana and alcohol being the same.

WHATEVER I'M A RACIST
- the big fag

Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator

Sep 21, 2008, 7:34 PM

Post #5 of 94 (1033 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

You can't really say what is ethical or not, universally. Hell, hedonism says that the highest ethic is achieving pleasure. By a hedonists standards drugs are wonderful. Aristotle would say that such things have their place, and can be enjoyed without harm in moderation. It really varies.

drcorn
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Sep 21, 2008, 7:39 PM

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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

well, with ethicality being to be in accordance with social rules, you can say what is ethical, in a certain place.
not universally, but then i'm still not sure of what scale this debate is about.

WHATEVER I'M A RACIST
- the big fag

Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator

Sep 21, 2008, 7:41 PM

Post #7 of 94 (1028 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, socially its just not nice to get hammered and act rudely. But thats a person to person basis. Not everyone drinks like that, or acts like that when they're drunk. So you couldn't say that really one way or the other.

drcorn
Member

Sep 21, 2008, 7:49 PM

Post #8 of 94 (1026 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

well yeah, but still;
i think nitrous was implying that drinking and smoking weed as a whole were unethical activities and i don't think i agree with that. that being said, it isn't actually the whole of society that says that getting drunk or high are unethical.

WHATEVER I'M A RACIST
- the big fag

Pheylan
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Sep 21, 2008, 8:04 PM

Post #9 of 94 (1022 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

Well, most societies in the modern day have had alcohol so ingrained into their beings that it is not really seen as detrimental by many. America, for instance, has had alcohol since its inception when the people who settled it came over with beer and such. Alcohol was safer because the process of making it involved killing a lot of the things in their normal water that would usually kill you or make you sick. They hadn't figured out what exactly did that, they just knew it wasn't present when they made alcohol. So it was a very big part of their lives. And that stretches on even earlier than that.

Marijuana was villified thanks to a great degree of racism, and it was so easy because marijuana isn't a part of white European culture. Before it was made illegal it was enjoyed by some, which eventually began to include the black jazz musicians and such. The racist beliefs during these times were played upon and marijuana was made out to be a tool of seduction of the black men, who would use to woo and have sex with white women. Ridiculous notions like that were turned into propaganda and spread throughout the nation (see: Reefer Madness). Similar things have happened with most every other drug.

A classic example of the gigantic chasm that lies between how America as a people feels about both drugs can be seen in the difference between the Prohibition and the War on Drugs. The Prohibition ultimately failed, whereas the war on drugs continues even today. As you said, the whole of society doesn't subscribe to these beliefs, and more people are beginning to have paradigm shifts concerning such things. However, by and large, society views on marijuana (and other such drugs) aren't going to be changing anytime soon.

Look at the inane drug laws being passed in the UK recently. A lot of drugs are being rescheduled as more dangerous than before, which is resulting in much harsher punishments. Or, the objectively insane laws in the UAE or almost every Asian nation. In some of those places, they will kill you for possession.

drcorn
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Sep 21, 2008, 8:16 PM

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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

but rascim is unethical as well, in most places, even though it wasn't in the 50s. but marijuana was banned before then, anyway. and racism wasn't the main reason why.

WHATEVER I'M A RACIST
- the big fag

(This post was edited by drcorn on Sep 21, 2008, 8:23 PM)

Nitrous�
Enthusiast

Sep 21, 2008, 9:39 PM

Post #11 of 94 (1012 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

i think nitrous was implying that

You guys wont let go of Nitrous will ya? Oh well the purpose for ILB failed (to no longer be known as nitrous >.<) meh, more post count ftw.

Anyway: Pheylan makes a good point. And I agree that both alcohol and marijuana can be normal and enjoyable in small doses, and dont appear unethical at all. But in large amounts, marijuana is actually less dangerous than alcohol.

As everyone knows, alcohol causes more direct deaths than marijuana (in fact marijuana does not directly cause death at all) Thousands die per year from alcohol poisoning, but none die from overdosing on marijuana. However both marijuana and alcohol can both lead to behavior that could result in death (driving while drunk, driving while high, both equally dangerous). Yet the question still remains; why is marijuana illegal and alcohol legal? If anything it should be the other way around.

drcorn
Member

Sep 21, 2008, 10:13 PM

Post #12 of 94 (1010 views)
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Re: [Nitrous�] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

Quote

You guys wont let go of Nitrous will ya?

nope.

Quote

However both marijuana and alcohol can both lead to behavior that could result in death (driving while drunk, driving while high, both equally dangerous)

smoking weed doesn't lead to dangerous driving. driving while high is dangerous, but marijuana doesn't actually cause that behaviour.

Quote

why is marijuana illegal and alcohol legal? If anything it should be the other way around.

didn't you see what happened to america when they tried that?
in actual fact when a government tries to ban a certain item or substance, they cause a sort of paradox.
think of it like this;
-government bans alcohol
-government loses tax from alcohol
-alcohol distribution is handled by mob, street gangs, etc
-alcohol price raises, caused by supply vs. demand
-mob/street gangs earn money from the previously legal substance/item

which is exactly what's happened with weed, and did happen in america with alcohol.

WHATEVER I'M A RACIST
- the big fag

(This post was edited by drcorn on Sep 21, 2008, 10:23 PM)

Nitrous�
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Sep 21, 2008, 10:36 PM

Post #13 of 94 (1007 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

smoking weed doesn't lead to dangerous driving. driving while high is dangerous, but marijuana doesn't actually cause that behaviour.

You know thats what I meant >.< Stop making me look dumb :(

In Reply To

You misunderstood, I wasnt suggesting alcohol be banned, I meant alcohol has more of a reason to be banned than marijuana does. And anyway that is what is happening with marijuana at the moment, if they legalised marijuana, there would be less money going to criminals and more money going to the government via marijuana tax, and isnt that what the government want?

Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator

Sep 21, 2008, 10:54 PM

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Re: [Nitrous�] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

It is a lot more profitable for the government to continue the war on drugs than to tax drugs, even marijuana. We let drugs into our own country so that we can keep funneling loads of money into various government agencies under the pretense of this war. The DEA and port authorities make money off of bribes from drug lords to let their incoming shipments through, law enforcement and other various agencies get paid to fight this war with all of our tax dollars, and so on. The government has a really great thing going on for them with this war. And that is what they want.

In Reply To

but marijuana was banned before then

You don't think the majority of America was racist in the seventies? Since you're basing your ethics on societal norms, let me just tell you that no other white person would have looked at you funny if you used the would "nigger" in general conversation. This politically correct bullshit didn't start until relatively recently, as far as race relations go.

In Reply To

racism wasn't the main reason why.

If you aren't going to offer an alternative then you's just a dumb nigga. Woogie boogie.

(This post was edited by Pheylan on Sep 21, 2008, 11:04 PM)

Nitrous�
Enthusiast

Sep 21, 2008, 11:10 PM

Post #15 of 94 (998 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

It is a lot more profitable for the government to continue the war on drugs than to tax drugs

How so? The government spends hundreds of millions of dollars a year on the war on drugs, whereas they could be making money taxing rather than losing money enforcing. Wait a minute Im not American why do I care? Oh and is the war on drugs only for marijuana? Cause if its not, legalising marijuana wouldnt end the war on drugs, it would just change the focus of the war on drugs to drugs that actually harm people.

Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator

Sep 21, 2008, 11:20 PM

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Re: [Nitrous�] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

The people that profit are the people to whom the war on drugs funnels money to. These government agencies would have no excuse to get the sums that they do. Thats why they have lobbyists who support politicians who support the war. The government isn't just one unified body that works together in harmony. This is a case of several parts of the federal government playing their position so that they can have bigger budgets. Without this war they would not have the budgets that they do. These agencies aren't losing money. They aren't spending money on the war on drugs as you would think of it. The war is an excuse to reallocate money. Which they can then spend on whatever they hell they think would benefit them the most.

If you take marijuana out of the picture, not only is there the public outcry of the people who really do believe that it should be illegal, but you also lose a large part of the reason to ask for more money. Marijuana related arrests are placed at around 12 million since its legalization. With the annual marijuana related arrests, the said agencies can say "Hey, we've still got a massive drug problem and need you guys up top to authorize more spending for our agency."

A big argument that could be made against the usefulness of a tax, is the ease with which people can grow marijuana. If you could buy a book and learn how to cultivate your own marijuana garden, you aren't going to drop money for a pack of Marlboro greens at the gas station. That shit adds up, and it won't be cheap. Especially with the economy in America today. It can be argued that the number of people growing their own weed and likely sharing it with their friends for FREE would be quite substantial. Enough to put a dent in profits that would be made on a marijuana tax.

(This post was edited by Pheylan on Sep 21, 2008, 11:22 PM)

Nitrous�
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Sep 21, 2008, 11:47 PM

Post #17 of 94 (992 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

Lol ok you seem to know a lot more about the American government than I do and this debate is getting too deep for me. So I'm pulling out before I make a fool of myself with my lack of knowledge on US politics.

neocloud101
Veteran

Sep 22, 2008, 4:54 AM

Post #18 of 94 (983 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

i think everything should be legal.

"OMG noobs these days man u need to get a damn life there are those other catagorys u blind piece of black[Expletive Deleted] u 2 cent hooker ass nazi moron pussy bitch dick suck"
--Dushbag150

Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator

Sep 22, 2008, 6:21 AM

Post #19 of 94 (978 views)
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Re: [neocloud101] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

posting at exactly 4:20 est

E: FUCK 421

(This post was edited by Pheylan on Sep 22, 2008, 6:21 AM)

neocloud101
Veteran

Sep 22, 2008, 9:39 AM

Post #20 of 94 (968 views)
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Re: [Pheylan] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

4 20's my birthday =D

"OMG noobs these days man u need to get a damn life there are those other catagorys u blind piece of black[Expletive Deleted] u 2 cent hooker ass nazi moron pussy bitch dick suck"
--Dushbag150

-Pwnt-
Veteran

Sep 22, 2008, 11:58 AM

Post #21 of 94 (964 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

I forgot what country it was that allows beer to be consumed by anybody, any age. At any rate, you can statistically prove that they have lower death rates and DUIs because of a common theory.

Kids in America try to drink because they're not allowed too. Rebellion is the cool thing to do in the United States. If it were normal and treated as a beverage (which it is), then I'm sure death rates would be lower.

I believe the same concept applies to marijuana. And hell. I like both. Sometimes I forget how to breath after doing both.

Pheylan
Veteran / Moderator

Sep 23, 2008, 3:44 AM

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Re: [-Pwnt-] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

In Reply To

Rebellion is the cool thing to do in the United States.

(This post was edited by Pheylan on Sep 23, 2008, 3:52 AM)

Real1ty
Senior Member

Oct 4, 2008, 2:10 PM

Post #23 of 94 (918 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

marijuana yes
blah blah science says it isn't bad for you blah blah i'm too lazy to google search

"It worked, idk how. It probably wasn't healthy considering one time it bleed."
~coolgreencat

Papa Smurf�
Senior Member

Oct 6, 2008, 8:30 AM

Post #24 of 94 (846 views)
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Re: [drcorn] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

no it's gay

keep it illegal

coolgreencat
Senior Member

Oct 6, 2008, 8:51 AM

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Re: [Papa Smurf�] marijuana: a serious debate [In reply to]	Can't Post

Papa Smurf�

"When push comes to shove, a lot more will be pushed than shoved."

-Unknown

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